Holly conner she/her

I come from a family that's pretty into art, I would say they’re feminists and everything. But still, because I'd probably not even seen anybody except males playing the drums, it hadn't even entered my mind that that's something I could do.

Yeah. It's kind of crazy that that moment changed my whole life, probably.

“Did you study music at university? What was it like?”

Conner: I did the Jazz Course at the Conservatorium. It was an interesting experience. Positives and negatives. I'm very glad that I did the course in the end, because of the people that I met. I mostly value the very broad skills that I gained, like how to rehearse bands properly, how to practise and how to learn things for myself. Yeah, how to learn.  And how to improvise, and technique.

At the time when I did the jazz course, there wasn't a contemporary course. After high school, I really just wanted to be a better drum set player – in all contemporary styles – styles like rock/pop, modern jazz, improvisation and experimental practice on the drums, funk, fusion, and world musics…

If you wanted to do pop and rock music, you were kind of limited to the private colleges like JMC and I didn't really want to do *just* that. So, in some ways, I found it more genre restrictive than I thought doing the jazz course, and I found that quite frustrating. The skills that were more about adhering to a style, and playing purely in that genre (jazz, bebop) were less useful to me…

Conner expressed difficulty navigating the “restrictive” nature of her course, as she wanted to branch out and play a variety of genres:

Conner: It's a 4-year degree and I really wanted to quit during third year, but I decided to keep going and I got Simon Barker as a drum teacher and that kind of turned things around…

But looking back, you know, it made me quite resilient. It solidified what I want to do in music and what I'm not interested in, in a way. And I guess actually, in a way, like what scenes I want to be a part of and what scenes I have no interest in being a part of because I don't think the culture is what I want to be involved with.

Conner later explained cultures within some jazz scenes that did not align with her personal and musical values:

Conner: I didn't really want to be part of the jazz scene because a few years ago. I felt pressure to adhere to these jazz structures or stylistic boundaries that were very narrow. It often felt a bit “macho” or like a “test” of how well you can tick these particular boxes...if you can’t do these things, you are not a valid Jazz musician, “virtuosity above all else”.  I just wanted to work with all sorts of different people and the jazz scene felt like, quite restrictive, and honestly, not very creative…

I think there are lots of people working really hard to change the perception of jazz.

She also described genres and music scenes which, in her experience, have been more accepting and progressive:

Conner: It's quite interesting playing across a lot of different genres and seeing what the culture around those different genres feels like. In general, my experience of electronic music has been pretty welcoming. And it's now pretty normal for major - again, it's a bit hard to know because I do gravitate towards scenes that like have more diverse people, but I would say - it's pretty common now for major electronic music festivals to have like pretty diverse DJs on their line-up. Like, diverse as in people from all around the world, black, white, Latino, like whatever, and like queer representation. But also yeah, like for DJs, there's a lot of older DJs, which is also cool. Like so age is less of a barrier as well.

So yeah, I've found like electronic music, the culture feels quite good, relatively. And avant-garde music is similar.

The rock scene – I mean, I play in a band that's run by two women. So I suppose the gigs we get… And it's going to probably be the more inclusive side of the scene anyway. But I've had a pretty good experience in rock music.

“What helped you gain confidence on your instrument over the years then?”

Conner: I can't emphasise how great Simon Barker was as a teacher. And I've, I have had some other really great teachers in the past. Like I had a great teacher in Martin Highland, and Jayne Groves, who was my early teacher…

I think it's just like people giving me opportunities and believing in me and giving me the chance to do my own thing as well. I think doing my own thing and having people support me in that has been great.

“Could you tell me a bit about your solo project?”

Conner: ilex is the name of my solo project. In like 2018, I started mucking around with Ableton … I've always been into electronic music, but I didn't really have any program or any way of making it. Yeah. I just started making tracks by recording and sampling myself, playing drums and percussion. I've always been interested in textual percussion as well as like rhythmic stuff, like avant-garde percussion. I always liked Australian groups Synergy Percussion and Speak Percussion, all that stuff.

So, it's like a combination of ambient textual electronics mixed with percussion… But it's really just become whatever music I want to make.

“What do you like about being a drummer?”

Conner: I like the physicality of it. I like playing - I mean, of course I enjoy doing my solo stuff - but I like playing with other people mostly. I like being in a band with other people. Physically, you're playing with them, you're really locking in. When performing or recording, you’re seeing and hearing and moving all totally in the moment, and sharing that special live energy with your band mates and audience. You’re communicating something special, performing and creating feels great.

Yeah. It's communicating physically. I like moving my whole body to make music. That feels like a natural way for me.  Like if I was going to play another instrument, I actually don't think I would really enjoy playing like a wind instrument. Or like, maybe I'd play guitar because it's such like a physical and rhythmic thing as well. Yeah, I like sort of being physically like making music with other people.

“You mentioned that Simon and some of your other teachers have been really inspiring and encouraging to you. Could you tell me about some other role models or mentors who have helped you to pursue your career?”

Conner: I actually just love seeing people just being themselves, to be honest. And that makes me feel better about the world in general; that people are free to just express themselves. And I suppose that filters through in giving me confidence to just do what I want without worrying where I will fit…

Whenever I just see somebody who is just authentically being themselves. I feel like that just filters through. Particularly like, these days also, when I see a woman that's a bit older up there and performing…a woman who’s successful, respected, and continuing a career for as long as she wants, and it’s on her own terms…that’s inspiring. Now you see more women, you see more gender diverse people, just like, the visibility is a little bit more.

But especially in pop and rock, there's so many young, beautiful, kind of like conventionally beautiful women that you see all the time. And then when I see an older woman who's just authentically being themselves and they're still popular and people still love them and like they have fans, that gives me a lot of hope because I think, “Oh, well, you know, people are genuine.” Like, they don't care what you look like. They don't care, you know, as long as you’re just authentically you.

Yeah, that gives me kind of that gives me hope.

“Could you tell me your experience of gender equality throughout your career?”

Conner: I don't know how far back you want to go. But yeah, I mean, I had experiences in primary school where like boys would physically push me off the drum stool because they wanted to take the kit parts, or like, I kind of had to fight for the kit parts and that type of thing.

And then - people were always meaning well when they said this, but often I have people come up and say, “Oh, it's so great to see a girl drummer,” you know, “That's actually good!” or stuff like that. It's like, “OK… That's pretty backhanded.” Or like, “OK, yeah, yeah, I get it. I'm a woman playing the drums.” Most people do mean well, and nearly everyone wants to celebrate more females in the industry, Like that's cool that you think that's really great and are telling me. But like, part of me does think that nearly every time I'm doing a gig, I'm reminded that I'm a female. 

People mean well, but it's kind of like I'm constantly being reminded that I'm somebody unusual doing this thing.

Conner went on to tell me about her experiences in SIMA’s Young Women’s Jazz Workshops:

Conner: I did the young women's jazz improvisation workshops and that was so great. That's I think, yeah, that was that was a really awesome experience. And what they're trying to do with that is they're trying to show young girls and gender diverse young people and sort of breakdown the barriers of getting into jazz. And that did do that for me. It broke down some barriers. I hadn't really tried jazz before I did those courses, and then I got into improvised music…

Sandy Evans was running it and my first ensemble was with Jess Green and Zoe Hauptmann, which was really awesome. Love both of them. Yeah.

And it was great 'cause they're obviously like really cool and really open-minded, creative people. So, I was like, “Oh, you can be cool and play jazz!”

As well as other programs in Sydney such as the Arts Unit and Jazz Workshop Australia:

Conner: I did the Arts Unit, which is run by the NSW Department of Education and Training. That's for high school students from public schools. You audition and then they run ensembles every week and like go on tour and yeah, so like anyone from a public school can audition.

And yeah, I did the jazz stream of that and I also did the wind band orchestral stream. So I was doing a lot of music in high school. I was doing like 3-hour wind band rehearsal, 3-hour jazz rehearsal each week for that….

That was so fun because it was all these kids from like all around NSW who just like wanted to be there and play music. And I met loads of people through that and made some really great friends through that who were just also interested in music.

So, I would say that kind of changed my life, being in the Arts Unit.

… And then I also did some combos at Jazz Workshop. Saul Richardson, who runs that. He’s a really, really great educator. He was always super. Very supportive. He does a great job with that.

And programs outside of Sydney:

Conner: I've done like - apart from uni - I've done an Australian Art Orchestra Creative Music Intensive. That was really great and totally unique as well.

And I did the School of Improvised Music course in Brooklyn. Yeah. That was good. That was pretty interesting seeing and getting a perspective from New York, you know?

“What do you think has contributed most to you being here now and doing what you do?”

Conner: That's a hard one. Because I think earlier on… Like if you'd asked me in uni… Like, I always loved playing music, I always loved performing. In uni, that kind of like dipped quite a lot because my self-confidence just like took a massive dive and I was kind of questioning whether I actually wanted to keep going or not.

But now I'm kind of… I feel like I'm in too deep. Like, I like expressing myself through music and I like creating things with other people and I like bringing people's visions to life and I like the way it makes my brain feel. It's like, creatively satisfying.

And I mean, playing to loads of people is really fun. I actually really enjoy playing to lots of people! And sort of, yeah… Like it's like sharing and communicating. And I feel like it would be hard for me to do anything else now.

“What types of programs would you like to see in your music scene to better empower and inspire future drummers?”

Conner: For me, drums is mainly about - despite having a solo project - drums is mainly about playing with other people. I mean, I think there are lots of Rock band programs in schools and stuff. And there are sort of some songwriting ones.

I guess if I think back... As a drummer, I didn't… For a long time, I didn't think that I could make my own music. Because, I guess, you're always playing with other people and you're always sort of supporting other people. So, it’s almost like… Even though there were opportunities for maybe songwriting workshops or composition workshops at school or at uni, I kind of didn't think those were available to me because I was a drummer. And so, for a long time, I kind of didn't - even though I kind of always wanted to do my own thing or like be more of a creative like part of the music beyond the drums (like arranging or thinking of keys parts or vocal parts, whatever) - I never really did that.

So I guess, yeah, like composition workshops or songwriting workshops or production workshops that include everybody, not just guitarists, not just singers, not just keys players. I think I would have benefited from that. But they probably exist now.

“What is one thing you would like to tell young, gender diverse and women drummers that you wish you had heard when you were growing up?”

Conner: Just like, don't take sh*t from anyone. You deserve to be there. You deserve to have the chance. Yeah. You deserve to be able to just try things out, even if it's not for you.

In my experience, I have been lucky that most of the situations that I've been nervous about and thrown myself into anyway, they've come out as positive experiences. And it is hard to throw yourself, you know, especially if you're a teenager or if you're young, you know, it's hard to just put yourself out there and just, you know! If you're trying to fit in or you're trying to be liked, whatever.

But I guess I was… Not that I did anything crazy! But yeah, it just sounds so corny, but like, believe in yourself and if you really love something, just find a way to do it.

Holly Conner is a drummer, percussionist, and producer based in Sydney. The rhythmic backbone behind many Australian acts, she is known for her creativity and versatility as a performer, improviser, collaborator,  composer, and solo artist. A musical chameleon, she is just as at home playing electronic pop with producers, or belting the drums in indie rock bands; as she is in the worlds of film music, free jazz, and experimental performance art. Alongside her work as a free-lance artist and collaborator, she creates and performs her own percussion-meets-electronic music (sometimes ambient, sometimes industrial) as ilex.

 "Dynamic, powerful...an impressive display of virtuosic drumming....Highly theatrical, the sound and vision were highly impressive" - Eric Myers, Sydney Opera House for the Freedman Fellowship Awards. 

Holly has toured with songwriters, producers, and composers throughout Europe and Australia; recorded for film and tv; performed as part of large-scale art installations and cross-disciplinary works at venues such as The Sydney Opera House and Carriageworks; and has played at many festivals across the globe.

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Courtesy of Holly Conner.