Lozz Benson she/her

“And were any of your family musical?”

Benson: You know, my parents always used to listen to music, but no one played instruments. But my sister sung and we always used to perform at school. So as far as musical influences, I think I had a very eclectic palette of what I was listening to with my parents. And it's what we did back when there was no Netflix and there was no like, yeah… Like after school we'd go and bike ride and hang out in the garage and play our, like, really cheap old instruments, you know. It was a just different mind space. So yeah, that was my influences. More like, family - more like family and cousins.

“And did you study music at university?”

Benson: I did, and the decision that actually got me into university was attending the SIMA Young Women's Jazz Workshops. I think when I was in year 12 and I was trying to figure out what do I want to do for a career. I didn't even know it was possible to study music.  So, I did study and I auditioned for several different courses 'cause I didn't think I'd get into the one that I wanted to, which was the Con. And then I got in and I was like, “Wow, that's nuts!” And then I studied jazz because I thought, at that time too, that was the only thing that was going to challenge me the most. Because some of the other contemporary courses may not have been as challenging as they would be maybe like now, in 2024. So, the Con was the most challenging thing I could have done at that time. 

“What was being at the Con like for you?”

Benson: So, my first year at the Con, there were 30 students in first year. I don't know what it's like these days, but the intake was very small. And out of all those thirty people in my year, there were three females. There was one vocalist, there was one pianist and there was one drummer, and I was the drummer.  I think at that time the SIMA young women's jazz course was there to encourage more girls to audition. 

And when I went to the Con in 2009, it was all before a lot of the things that have come out now, like ‘#MeToo’. I think there's a lot more things in place now to make sure that you are in a safe environment that's like, conscious of the myriad of things that you go through when you study music.

So I will say first and foremost, my experience at the Con was great. It was challenging in the way that it was hard to study in an environment where there were more boys. And also, the age of the boys meant that maybe the emotional maturity of some of them was not maybe… Yeah…

I grew a lot. It had its challenges. And I also think I wouldn't have gone anywhere else because I don't think I would have been able to grow as much at AIM, where the audition for a drum was like, can you play a rock beat? Yes, I can play a rock beat. You know? Whereas, at the Con, it was a little bit more challenging. 

I think one other thing I will add is when I was at the Con, you were there to study jazz. You if you deferred from the path you like… For example, I started getting into like rockabilly and some of the other guys were getting into free jazz. I think now it's a lot more fluid in its [structure], with the contemporary course, whereas the Con [jazz degree] is very strict. If you're there to study jazz, you're doing jazz and it was like very strict. If you were into other types of music, you wouldn't get the gigs or you were kind of shunned. You were a bit of a ‘black sheep’, in my experience.

“Thanks for sharing that. You mentioned the Young Women's Jazz Workshops were really good. Could you tell me more about that and how that impacted you?”

Benson: I think I was just like researching like “Australian drummers” and I was quite downhearted that everything that came up was all of the American drummers. Like, Cindy Blackman was really big and the Karen Carpenters, the Terr Lynn Carrington's. But when it came to like, “Who can I look to for inspiration in Australia?” In the mainstream, we didn't have G Flip. We didn't have like all of these incredible drummers that are out there now.

So, the SIMA young women's jazz course introduced me to this like core of like badass mo-fos like Sandy Evans who’re part of that scene, like Judy Bailey, Zoe Hauptmann, Ali Foster. It’s like, “Whoa!” Like I am their age now. It's like, “Wow, these women are like trying to create this beautiful future, like an environment where they're encouraging women to get into jazz.” I was like, [mind blown]! It was like… It was crazy.  

… But that was what got me into the Con because I was like, “Oh, I didn't know if I'm good enough,” and you know, all those things. So that [the Young Women’s Jazz Workshops] played a very big role in being exposed to those positive influences because like, ‘monkey see, monkey do’. I can see a woman playing bass, then maybe I can or drums. So, yeah…

So SIMA has really [helped], look at where the scene is now! I can name 10 female drummers, like not even jazz drummers or genre specific.

“What do you think has contributed most to you being here now and doing what you do?”

Benson: I think having other really strong female mentors. Specifically, I would say having been through struggles with mental illness, with bullying, with workplace intimidation, in those moments, the people that have helped me the most are these really strong female mentors.

Like for me specifically, like Zoe Hauptmann has been a staple. Or you know, when I was on tour with [an artist] and I was getting bullied, I reached out to Dallas Frasca and she's like, “You need to stand up. This is what you need to do. You need to put in a formal complaint.” I had women surround[ing me]. Like, I was surrounded by those positive role models. 

I try to be that as well for the students that I teach, for other musicians that are my friends that are gigging. Yeah. Just being open and honest about those conversations. Like, what do you do when it does get hard? Or, those conversations that women have that only like women can kind of relate to.  So, yeah, what has led me to this point, I would say is really strong mentors.

I always tell people Simon Barker changed my life. Like honestly, he did.

“Could you tell me a bit more about those role models and mentors? How did Simon help you and all those other people?”

Benson: I think the biggest influences for me as role models were my drum teachers. So like growing up, I had incredible drum teachers that were always like… I think they saw that I, you know, wanted [to play drums]. Yeah, they saw the passion in me, so they helped me [get] on that path… That's why, for me, having a great teacher has then made me realise, “Oh my gosh, I want to be that for some kid.”

Simon gave me some lifelong skills. And then Simon came along and really changed my perception of [drumming]. I was holding my breath, and I was like very tense and anxious. And he's like, “You don't just have to be here to study jazz. Let's think about music as more a holistic concept.” So when I say he changed my life, I mean, Simon came in and gave me the permission to be like, “Relax, you're overthinking.” And I think jazz can sometimes do that a lot because it's quite an intellectual form of music.

… And I've called [Zoe Hauptmann] and been like, “Hey, is this how much I should be getting/paying?” Or, “Hey, is this normal?” Like, or, you know, just having women that are there that you can [rely on], that are more experienced. It's like you're touring with the big guns. It’s like, “Can you help me out?” And I've found that, like, so, so helpful. 

“Are any other programs that you want to see in your music scene to like better empower and inspire future drummers?”

Benson: I'm always of the firm belief there is one initiative that I wish they would do at the Con. It's the blind auditions. I would love to see how the landscape would change, specifically in relation to gender diversity. I would love to see how that would change with blind auditions because, you know, the statistics say with blind auditions, more diverse people [are accepted into the course].

… I think across the board it could be great to see a program that's just practising rhythms. Like, going through the odd time signatures and playing semiquavers with sticks or going through the rudiments or different genres of [music], like the Latin grooves.

“What do you like about being a drummer?”

Benson: Because I’m playing drums professionally, the thing I like about most is that the environment's always changing. I think, for someone like me who is neurodiverse, you know, I've always struggled, you know, even before I thought I was going to make drums a career. I love playing gigs in different venues. I love playing with other people.

I think the thing I love most being about a drummer actually is the community. Like, it is such a beautiful community of people and friends. Everyone's so open to share knowledge and wisdom and information and encouragement and, what I felt personally, you know, even seeing the older generation is now like Gordon Rytmeister. I can call Gordon to be like, “Can you teach me how to use iReal Pro?” And he'd be like, “Come on over, I'll teach you how to use it!” Or, you know, call Glenn Wilson, “I want to learn how to record drums.” He'll be like, “Come on over, I'll teach you how to mic a drum kit.”

I found that the drumming community is like, everyone’s … there's going to be bad eggs everywhere. But, generally speaking, it's this really magical, weird like thing.  

And on that note, I will say the thing I like about being a drummer in 2024: There are so many other female drummers in the community that I feel… I love when someone calls me up and I can't do a gig and they're like, “Can you recommend someone?” And I've just got this pool of incredible drummers to recommend. And I really love seeing my friends succeed in areas where, in other times it hasn't been possible. 

… There's so many examples I could give you. But yeah, that's the long-winded answer. I think the long-winded answer is that, but the short answer is community and ever-changing environment.

“You've mentioned a couple things already about gender equality and I was wondering, if you are comfortable to share, what is your experience or experiences of gender equality in your career?”

Benson: Well, let me start with the positive ones.

I've noticed… I went and had lunch with a friend the other day who's a music director, and he said, “I'm holding auditions for this musical that's coming up, and my first priority is making the pit musicians – I want to make the band gender diverse.” I was like, “Oh, I’ve never heard that [before]. OK, yes. Sick.” Like, my friend is queer. He's conscious of creating that environment because he hasn't had that. So he's like, “I want to create a safe environment that's gender diverse.” … So, that is a positive experience of me seeing someone who's my age in their 30s trying to create gender equality. 

The tour that I've just been on, Angus and Julia Stone, Julia said to me, she specifically wanted to get a new band. And she's like, “I want to have more women on the road.” So they had a female tech, they had me on drums and they had a female on bass. That changed the environment and the experience drastically. 

So, I just want to premise by saying, I have had many positive experiences like in the last year that are incredible. All the negative experiences I've had have been very much like 10 years ago, again, before ‘#Me Too’, very much before like any of these conversations had started. 

But there are groups out there that are like, “if you don't have a d*ck, you're not going to get in the band, you're not going to be in the band.” There's still bands out there that operate like that, like that are very old school. And I feel like when I was in uni, that was such a thing. It was such a thing. I don't think it's much of a thing now.

And so sometimes I felt very left out and sometimes I felt very excluded. Sometimes I just thought maybe I'm not good enough. Maybe I'm just not as good as, I don't know, the boys. Because maybe I am too feminine. They can, oh, look, they can play really masculine and like ballsy and like, oh, you know, like ballsy jazz dude who's a gun. And I'm just like [not that], yeah.  I feel like that was my experience, though. And even turning up to big band sometimes at the Con, it was absolutely terrifying. Like, it's a big band full of the, you know, it's the Con big band's first [best] big band. It's all the guns and it's all dudes bar the piano player who's a girl and the drummer, like… and then just having comments made.

So like in those situations, I think that's been my experience where it hasn't been gender diverse. But again, it comes down to the people. You know, I've worked in bands with men and they're lovely. So really it like maybe it comes down to educating people. I don't want to say ‘all men’.

I think it comes [down to], “How can we educate people in general to be more aware of like being inclusive and creating like a safe space for everyone?” I don't think those [words] “safe space”, I'm pretty sure those words were not ever used when I was at the Con. No way! Like, absolutely not.

Benson spoke further about her experiences of being hired as a “female drummer” and highlighted the importance of mindset and a supportive environment.

Benson: Sometimes it's not just your drumming that gets you the gig because some people just want like a “female drummer”, which I guess is cringy. But I can turn this around and reframe it as, “Some kid is going to watch me playing drums and they're going to pick up drums.”

There have been other times where it's used in a more negative sense. I've had men say, “I want you for this tribute show because I want someone at the back playing tambourine that looks hot.” That's the thing that can be a bit insulting because you're like, “Oh, you're not just hiring me because I'm a good musician. You're hiring me because I'm nice to look at.” And that that's the negative side of it.

… I think what I've learnt in my career – over the last few years, specifically – is there were times where I would take all gigs and any gigs no matter what. But I think being a drummer and a musician is also about like your quality of life. And that is also about choosing the environments that are safe to work in, that are inclusive. When I talk about environments, I'm talking about the people that you choose to work with as a musician and choosing those safe people.

… And I think I want people to know like money's not everything. Like you want to be happy and you don't want to be playing the music you don't want to be playing. If you know, again, yes, gig's a gig. You've got to make it an income and not suffer for your art and pay your rent. But when you can, I think I have gotten so much better at realising the importance of working in those environments where you can feel good.

Yeah, I wish that was something that they also taught in – you know how you said before, do you wish you could see more courses around drumming? I actually think I'd like to see more courses around like, the bigger picture of drumming and like the holistic nature of [it].

“Thank you so much for sharing that. I'm sorry to hear you had some negative experiences. How did you come to terms with sometimes being the only woman or gender diverse musician in the band or in a music setting?”

Benson: I think it went both ways. Sometimes it felt really empowering, like, “This is my job.” Like, I'm here and I've got to like represent,” and it can feel very validating and empowering. And then sometimes it can make you feel intimidated. And again, it so much depends on like [the] setting and the environment. Like, you know, because I've been in bands where it's just dudes and they make you feel so comfortable. And I've been in other situations where, yeah, it's so inappropriate…

I think there was some rocky moments where I really did struggle and like, my mental health was like really bad. There was a point where I got bullied so severely, I nearly gave up music. I'll never forget it. It's only happened once in my career. But I was made to feel so small because of my skill set that I just thought, “Well, I may as well give up.” But I didn't. So, I just really want to inspire the next generation to have such a strong sense of self so that when you do go into those environments, it doesn't matter what people say because, you know. 

“You said there was a point where you felt like giving up. What helped you to push past that and continue pursuing your career?”

Benson: I came back from a tour where I was touring with people that I'd never met before. As a session musician, that's very common. You just get put in a band. And I came back like wanting to give up. And what I did is I took some time off music. I just took some time off playing gigs.

I stopped playing gigs for a bit and I actually just connected with the people that are actually my friends. And I think I had just been so gaslit and bullied that I started believing like, “I'm not good. I'm, I can't do this.” So I think, yeah, I just took… What helped is taking a break off music, reassessing what I wanted to do and just hanging out with like very lovely, supportive people. 

And I think sometimes you need a break from playing music to figure out what direction you want to go in, maybe what you want to do, if you want to record or what genre you want to focus on. So that's what helped me through was, yeah. Hanging out with people who are your cheer squad, if you know what I mean.

“What has helped you gain the confidence on your instrument over the years?”

Benson: This is going to sound so cheesy and I don't know how to articulate it, but what makes me feel confident is literally practise. And Dave Goodman said to me, it's like, “If you can play something correctly 10 times in a row, you're sweet.” I think what gives me confidence is knowing that any time I walk into a gig, yeah, if I haven't, if I haven't prepared – you know, obviously I'm prepared – but if I have practised and I know that I'm good, I know if someone else doubts me or gives me feedback or whatever, it has helped me so much to know that I put in the work, I did my job. I turned up and did my job. No matter what happened on the gig, if something stuffed up, whatever it is, I think the confidence has come from practise. 

And the second thing is sense of self… And the third thing is not comparing yourself. I think it's so easy, you know, that saying, comparison is the thief of joy.

“What is one thing you would like to tell young gender diverse or women drummers that you wish you had heard when you were growing up?”

Benson: You can create your own opportunities and if you want something to be different. If you can sit down and figure out what you want and what you want to do with your life, you just got to go at it and try and ignore the noise surrounding that goal. And when I say the noise, I'm talking about all of that self-doubt, comparison.

So, if I could give some advice, just stick at what it is that you love and just remember why you picked it up in the first place. So if it gives you joy, then keep pursuing it.  Because I wish that I had someone say to me, “Hey, those people that are saying mean comments or those people that are not booking you for that gig, like, don't worry, you can, you can create your own opportunity. So go out and start your own band,” or whatever it is.

So yeah, I think I struggled because I didn't have that sense of self that I keep mentioning, which is confidence or the self-belief that you are good enough. Or wherever you're at now is good enough and if you want to get better, you just keep working at it. So yeah, I wish I had someone just say like, “Believe in yourself a bit more.”

“Perfect. Thank you so much. Is there anything about your experiences of gender equality or being a drummer that we haven't covered that you wanted to tell me about?”

Benson: What came to mind in that moment, for whatever reason – all I could think of was Bree van Reyk and my first tour that I did with Urthboy and she was playing with Paul Kelly... And I just remember being like, “Oh my God, he's a female drummer playing with Paul Kelly.” And it was like such a beautiful game changing moment for me because I was like, “Oh, I can do it.” I saw a woman doing what I wanted to do in that moment. And it was like, bizarre.

So I think, yeah, we should just create more situations where younger people see more women in mainstream commercial stuff and also underground stuff. 

Lozz Benson is one of Australia’s most highly sought-after session musicians and multi-instrumentalists. Since completing her Bachelor of Music majoring in Jazz Performance at the Sydney Conservatorium of Music, she has toured internationally with industry giants such as The John Butler Trio, Angus & Julia Stone, The Wiggles, Kate Ceberano, Missy Higgins, Mahalia Barnes, Paul Kelly, Jem Cassar-Daley, William Crighton and Marcia Hines. She has been mentored by Keith Urban on “The Voice” and is a passionate drum teacher and songwriter.

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Courtesy of Lozz Benson.